Difference between revisions of "Power Curve"

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The Power Curve is a way to describe how great this change is. A steep Power Curve will see end-game characters massively powerful compared to starting characters. A shallow Power Curve sees end-game characters more equal to the starting characters.
The Power Curve is a way to describe how great this change is. A steep Power Curve will see end-game characters massively powerful compared to starting characters. A shallow Power Curve sees end-game characters more equal to the starting characters.
==David Damerell==
Found and copied from [[rgrd]], the following message by David Damerell brings up some interesting points regarding epic fantasy, and the reasoning behind the DnD power curve:
:::...recall. Nothing changes in MMORPGs -- it's just the experience points and level of your character. -Kornel Kisielewicz
::Apart from MMOs like Planetside and Puzzle Pirates that don't have levelling. - David Damerell
:Well, so why didn't I ever hear about them? -Kornel Kisielewicz
Because it's almost universal that MMO*s have these stupid levelling
mechanics grafted on. :-(
I ''hear'' that GuildWars, which is new, aims to emphasise tactical skill
over level grinding. Roguelikes already emphasise tactical ability - well,
the good ones do...
:: Don't get me wrong; I like D&D fine as a tabletop game, but only when the type of play is appropriate for those mechanics, not simply when those mechanics are used blindly; and levelling, particularly, is very damaging to an MMO where it ensures that the vast majority of the player base can't actually play together. - David Damerell
: I don't like DnD even as a tabletop game. I hate those leveling mechanics that make one 50th level warrior take on hordes of 1st level warriors, and be able to take an artillery shot "on the brest". - Kornel Kisielewicz
Let's be clear here; even a 20th level warrior cannot take a catapult shot
to the chest. It's just that, as long as he has hitpoints left, you'll
never hit him with a catapult. The mechanic's a "hit" that does "damage",
but what happens in the game world is that he barely escapes it, gets
scratched up by debris, tires, pulls muscles...
50th level, of course, is well into epic levels; if you do play up to
that level, your characters are demigods, and shouldn't be thought of in
human terms.
As for the hordes of grunts, Miyamoto Musashi tackles a couple of dozen
guys in Yoshikawa's novelisation, and that's not even epic fantasy;
consider the Amber books. No-one would dispute that Benedict could fight a
hundred or a thousand ordinary men and win; it's appropriate to the genre.
[But, generally speaking, your umpteenth level characters shouldn't be
fighting hordes of no-challenge beasties. There needs to be a sense that
your old opponents are still out there and now no match for you, to get a
sense of progression and growth - another mistake that MMO*s are prone to
is that being a 2nd level character fighting 1st level beasties is not
very different to being a 50th level character fighting 49th level
beasties. City of Heroes is especially bad here, because the power system
tends to mean your character will have essentially the same combat
abilities at 10th level as at 21st.]
:I think that such mechanics actually destroy roleplaying. I far much prefere more balanced systems as GURPS... - Kornel Kisielewicz
But you ''can't'' do epic fantasy with GURPS, not without a set of patches
that make it akin to D&D, because it does have a "realistic" treatment of
combat and injury. Sir Lancelot might be killed by Mordred or by a giant,
but he's _never_ going to be brought down by a random arrow. This is the
old "realism" fallacy; the mechanics want to be appropriate to the genre.
If you don't like the genre, that's fine, but don't blame the mechanics
for doing their job.


[[category:roguelike development]]
[[category:roguelike development]]

Revision as of 08:22, 17 September 2006

The Power Curve is a measure of how the power of a character changes as he levels. Usually in RPGs, characters start off weak, barely able to best a rat, and end up crushing dragons with a single hit.

The Power Curve is a way to describe how great this change is. A steep Power Curve will see end-game characters massively powerful compared to starting characters. A shallow Power Curve sees end-game characters more equal to the starting characters.

David Damerell

Found and copied from rgrd, the following message by David Damerell brings up some interesting points regarding epic fantasy, and the reasoning behind the DnD power curve:

...recall. Nothing changes in MMORPGs -- it's just the experience points and level of your character. -Kornel Kisielewicz
Apart from MMOs like Planetside and Puzzle Pirates that don't have levelling. - David Damerell
Well, so why didn't I ever hear about them? -Kornel Kisielewicz

Because it's almost universal that MMO*s have these stupid levelling mechanics grafted on. :-(

I hear that GuildWars, which is new, aims to emphasise tactical skill over level grinding. Roguelikes already emphasise tactical ability - well, the good ones do...

Don't get me wrong; I like D&D fine as a tabletop game, but only when the type of play is appropriate for those mechanics, not simply when those mechanics are used blindly; and levelling, particularly, is very damaging to an MMO where it ensures that the vast majority of the player base can't actually play together. - David Damerell
I don't like DnD even as a tabletop game. I hate those leveling mechanics that make one 50th level warrior take on hordes of 1st level warriors, and be able to take an artillery shot "on the brest". - Kornel Kisielewicz

Let's be clear here; even a 20th level warrior cannot take a catapult shot to the chest. It's just that, as long as he has hitpoints left, you'll never hit him with a catapult. The mechanic's a "hit" that does "damage", but what happens in the game world is that he barely escapes it, gets scratched up by debris, tires, pulls muscles...

50th level, of course, is well into epic levels; if you do play up to that level, your characters are demigods, and shouldn't be thought of in human terms.

As for the hordes of grunts, Miyamoto Musashi tackles a couple of dozen guys in Yoshikawa's novelisation, and that's not even epic fantasy; consider the Amber books. No-one would dispute that Benedict could fight a hundred or a thousand ordinary men and win; it's appropriate to the genre.

[But, generally speaking, your umpteenth level characters shouldn't be fighting hordes of no-challenge beasties. There needs to be a sense that your old opponents are still out there and now no match for you, to get a sense of progression and growth - another mistake that MMO*s are prone to is that being a 2nd level character fighting 1st level beasties is not very different to being a 50th level character fighting 49th level beasties. City of Heroes is especially bad here, because the power system tends to mean your character will have essentially the same combat abilities at 10th level as at 21st.]

I think that such mechanics actually destroy roleplaying. I far much prefere more balanced systems as GURPS... - Kornel Kisielewicz

But you can't do epic fantasy with GURPS, not without a set of patches that make it akin to D&D, because it does have a "realistic" treatment of combat and injury. Sir Lancelot might be killed by Mordred or by a giant, but he's _never_ going to be brought down by a random arrow. This is the old "realism" fallacy; the mechanics want to be appropriate to the genre. If you don't like the genre, that's fine, but don't blame the mechanics for doing their job.