Early Uses

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Slash's great article On the Historical Origin of the Roguelike Term focuses on the 1993 discussions, which lead to an "official" recognition of "roguelike" as a genre. However, it mentions that, in the 1993 discussions, Ron Asbestos Dippold has mentioned that ``it’s already pretty accepted that rogue-like games are a special category of their own.``, and that this particular message provides a future point of expansion for the research. The focus of this article is this research. In particular, we quote the following pre-1993 sources:

  • uses of the term "roguelike",
  • uses of another term ("hacklike", "rogue style", "rogue type") with a similar meaning,
  • other posts which suggest that the author consider roguelikes a genre.

Most of this has been found by searching USENET newsgroups. If you want to do similar research yourself, Here is an example Google link that you could use.

1982 Oct 15: cmcl2!tihor on net.games.frp 

   The AD&D is indeed the TSR gaming product; AD_D is a rogue like game which was designed to be more AD&D-like. I haven't gotten my copy yet so I can not give more details.

The game this refers to seems to be Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Cloudy Mountain. It seems to rarely come up in roguelike discussions, but is grid-based, and has randomly generated levels.

1983 Apr 18: Heather on net.games 

   I recently read about a game called "Telengard." It seems similar to Adventure or Rogue (it's not made entirely clear whether it is verbal-adventure-like or screen-rogue-like)

We see that "roguelike" refers to an offshoot of adventure games which are "screen-oriented". This is similar to Eric S. Raymond's 1987 definition mentioned later, and the 1993 discussions.

1983 Jun 15: Ron on net.ai 

   We're attempting to combine ROGUE-like strategy with ADVENTURE-like role-playing.

Interestingly Adventure is considered a role-playing game, while Rogue is considered a strategy game.

1983 Jun 21: Randy Haskins on net.games.rogue 

   Does anyone out there know the author and origin of a rogue-like game called AD_D ?? It's similar to rogue in format, but it has more monsters and allows you to equip yourself at the beginning.

1983 Nov 23: Christopher J. Ho on net.micro 

  I don't know if they are stepping on anyone's copyright toes, but a local group of enterprising young programmers have implemented a very Rogue-like game in pascal running on our Dec-20s.

1984 Sep 12 Christian W. Stassen on net.games 

  Ultima III as a (rogue-style) graphics game.

This is a review of the book The Book of Adventure Games by Kim Schuette. It is not clear why Christian W. Stassen calls Ultima III rogue-style. The book subdivides the games discussed into "puzzle games" (what we would consider "adventure games" today) and "fantasies" (what we would consider RPGs). Another subdivision is text vs graphics, and how hard it is to save the game (no permadeath but whether you have to e.g. reboot the whole game). It includes Ultima I-III, and surprisingly it does not include any games that we would consider roguelikes, except Beneath Apple Manor (and neither does the second part).

1984 Nov 14 Game-Finder on net.wanted.sources 

  I'm looking for some games. Any kind of game, but preferably adventure games, and rogue type games.

1985 Apr 11: Jim Scardelis on net.wanted.sources 

   Are there any sources available from anywhere for rogue or rogue-like games? Also...does anyone know if rogue is available for other than UNIX computers, such as the IBM PC, and from whom?

1985 May 14: Alan M. Steinberg on net.flame 

   There should be a Rogue-like game, "LA Freeways", complete with hit points, monsters (Joyrider, Speedfreak, and the dreaded 90-in-the-slow-lane creature).

1985 Sep 6: Kay Dekker on net.wanted.sources 

   Indeed, I am well aware that Michael Toy (author of the original rogue game) has 'chosen not to make the sources publicly available': however, I think it must be well known on the net by now that sources for rogue-like (in the sense of not being mct originals) exist.

1985 Nov 16 nom... on net.games.video 

   The game is Gauntlet by Atari. It is a 1-4 player dnd/rogue style game with a fair number of (fixed) mazes.

So Gauntlet is considered a rogue-style game, although fixed mazes is noted as a difference. Gauntlet is apparently inspired by Dandy Dungeon, and the author of Dandy Dungeon says he did not know about Rogue -- if he did, he would make Dandy Dungeon randomized!

1986 Jan 25: rbt on net.wanted.sources 

   We are a group of computer scientists looking for a complete Rogue (or Rogue-like games) source in order to implement some additions.

1986 Feb 10: Richard M. Stallman on net.emacs 

   The tapes will also contain bison (a yacc replacement), MIT Scheme and hack (a rogue-like game).

Nice to see a famous person use "rogue-like" in 1986 and expect the readers to know what he means.

1986 Mar 27: Mike Laman on net.games.rogue 

   There are SOOOO many rogue (and rogue-like) versions, that it will easily confuse novices.

1986 Dec 13 Ram-Ashwin on comp.sys.atari.st 

   hack (rogue-like game, v 1.0.3), larn (rogue-like game)

1987 Feb 15 Steve Piper on net.sources.games 

   Three years ago, members of my group got hooked on the rogue-like game MORIA on a VAX/VMS 11/750

1987 Feb 28 Walt on net.sources.games 

   I would like to see this source code, or the source code to any Moria or Rogue like game.

1987 Sep 25 Eric S. Raymond, A Guide to the Mazes of Menace 

      You have just begun a game of nethack.  Your goal is to grab
  as  much  treasure as you can, find the Amulet of Yendor, and get
  out of the Mazes of Menace alive.  On the screen, a map of  where
  you have been and what you have seen on the current dungeon level
  is kept.  As you explore more of the level,  it  appears  on  the
  screen in front of you.

       Nethack differs from most computer fantasy games (other than
  its  ancestors  hack and rogue and its cousin larn) in that it is
  screen oriented.  Commands are all one or two keystrokes (as  op-
  posed to sentences in some losing parser's notion of English) and
  the results of your commands are  displayed  graphically  on  the
  screen  rather  than  being  explained in words (a minimum screen
  size of 24 lines by  80  columns is required; if  the  screen  is
  larger, only a 24x80 section will be used for the map).

       Another major difference between nethack and other  computer
  fantasy  games  is that once you have solved all the puzzles in a
  standard fantasy game, it has lost most of its excitement and  it
  ceases  to  be  fun.  Nethack, on the other hand, generates a new
  dungeon every time you play it and even the authors still find it
  an entertaining and exciting game.

This is basically a roguelike definition. And it is a very good one, that could be still used today!

It is actally based on the original rogue Manual.

1988 Jan 20 Laurence R. Brothers on comp.sources.games, v03i048: omega - rogue like dungeon exploration, Part01/15

This is Laurence R. Brother's source code post of Omega. Earlier versions call it single player dungeon simulation.

1988 Feb 20 Tim Iverson on comp.sources.games.bugs 

   Despite all of these minor problems, this Omega is definitely the best rogue-like game to date. Much more enjoyable than moria, hack, or ultrarogue

1988 Apr 10 Mike Stephenson on comp.sources.games.bugs 

   (Net)Hack is a Rogue-like dungeon game that runs on a variety of computer systems in as many implementations.

1989 May 7 Keith Steiger on rec.games.programmer 

   Omega is probably the BEST rogue/Hack/Moria game out right now

1989 Jul 8 Rev. Joseph Miklojcik on rec.games.programmer 

   How many rogue style games are there?

   I've been reading rec.games.programmer for a couple of months now. I have
   been considering writing an adventure game w/ rogue style interface for some
   time now, and was wondering how many such programs actually exist.

   I am aware of larn, ultralarn, omega, rogue, hack, nethack, and moria. If yet
   another such game would attract only large yawns, then it's not worth my time.
   If many other games like these exist, then my ideas for such a game arre much
   less likely to be original.

"Rogue style" clearly refers to interface. (But not sure whether specifically ASCII interface or the way of controlling the character.)

1989 Jul 17 Joseph Miklojcik on rec.games.programmer 

   mage is a multi-player, interactive adventure game, written in the tradition of other game with a similar user interface such as rogue and hack.

   Unlike other games of it's kind, life is not cheap in mage. Death will occur only rarely, and in a land of magic, even that is not often final.

This is just an idea.

1989 Jul 18 Patrick C. Beard on rec.games.programmer 

   I really don't want to write YARL (yet another rogue-like game) but I am interested in spreading my wings in object oriented programming.

1989 Sep 21 Kevin Lueng on rec.games.rogue 

   I play this Rogue like game called Ularn and I've been kicking alots of rear ends and able to kill just about all the monsters in the games.

1989 Sep 12 Joseph N. Hall on rec.games.programmer 

   Multi-player doesn't make sense in the conventional context of rogue-like games, which don't operate in realtime.

So roguelikes are said to be conventionally turn-based. There are also some other interesting points in this discussion.

1989 Oct 5 Felix Lee on rec.games.programmer 

   The point isn't to create Yet Another game but The Next Generation of games. Beginning with something like Rogue or Moria or NetHack, only much more symmetrical. Symmetrical as in, what the player can do, a monster can do, and vice-versa. NetHack is the most symmetrical, but in a superficial way

"Players Are Monsters" appears in the Berlin Interpretation and some other later roguelike definitions.

1990 Feb 10 Gene Spafford on news.announce.newusers, Answers to Frequently Asked Questions 

   You can't get the source of rogue. The authors of the game, as is their right, have chosen not to make the sources available. However, several rogue-like games have been posted to the comp.sources.games group and they are available in the archives

1990 Apr 17 Frank Kaefer on comp.sys.amiga 

   nethack 3pl7, conquer, (u)larn, moria, omega etc. (I really do like playing rogue style games :)

1990 Jun 8 John DiMarco on rec.games.moria 

   All in all, however, moria is a very enjoyable game, if a little difficult and monotonous at times. Of all the rogue-style games I've played, only Omega is as addictive.

1990 Aug 6 James Seidman on alt.mud, "Ideas for a Hack-like MUD" 

   I'm brainstorming with a friend on ideas for how to set up a multi-user game which would have a display along the lines of Hack or Moria.

1990 Aug 9 Per Abrahamsen on comp.archives, "Re: Ideas for a Hack-like MUD" 

   You can ftp myth from iesd.auc.dk (130.225.48.4). Myth is written in
   C++, and includes many classes useful when writing a multi-user game
   in the Hack and Moria genre. However, the game itself is rather
   primitive.

'1990 Oct 26 Willis Y Fork on comp.sys.amiga.games 

   Well I've been downloading and playing these PD "Rogue" type games.
   and wonder what other ones are ut there.
   and a fwe question.

NetHack, Moria, Omega, LARN appear in the discussion.

28 May 1991 Jim Omura on rec.games.video 

   Dragon Crystal is a variation on the "Hack" or "Rogue"
   type of adventure game. "Hack" was one of the earliest computer
   games and "Rogue" is the best known commercial version of
   this game and plays very much like the earlier versions of
   "Hack". In fact, I'm not entirely sure which came first. It
   may have been "Rogue", but I think it was "Hack."

(Dragon Crystal is graphical, and the later part of the post mentions restarts)

1991 Jan 3 The Jargon File 2.3.1 by Eric S. Raymond 

   <rogue> [UNIX] n. Graphic Dungeons-And-Dragons-like game written under
   BSD UNIX and subsequently ported to other UNIX systems.  The
   original BSD `curses(3)' screen-handling package was hacked together
   by Ken Arnold to support `rogue(6)' and has since become one of
   UNIX's most important and heavily used application libraries.
   Nethack, Omega, Larn and an entire subgenre of computer dungeon
   games all took off from the inspiration provided by `rogue(6)'.  See
   <hack>.

Earlier versions of the Jargon File do not recognize the genre. Jargon File 4.1.0 from 1999 Mar 12 adds "; the popular Windows game Diablo, though graphics-intensive, has very similar play logic". Jargon File 4.1.3 from 1999 Jun 14 adds "(all known as `roguelikes')". The name "computer dungeon" used here was also what the discussions in 1993 started with, although it seems much harder to search by this term.

1991 Jan 13 Josh Hayes on rec.games.moria 

   Many of the proposed changes I've seen are rather hack-like: I think we do well to preserve the differences between the two games, the elegant simplicity of moria and the everything-including-the-kitchen-sink approach of hack.

So hacklike is already considered a subgenre in 1991!

1991 Jan 28 Christopher M Songer on rec.games.hack 

   I'm looking for a hack like game that can be played by two or more simultaneously. I looked in rec.games.mud but it seemed more a social
   forum than an informative group. So.... I am looking for a game where two or more can move about in the same text dungeon.

(an answer suggests Phantasia)

1991 Mar 3 Jonathan Davidson on alt.sources.wanted 

   I am looking for a Hack-like (Larn/Rogue/Moria/etc) game written in Pascal.

1991 May 10 Mark Horton on comp.os.msdos.misc 

   I really want Rogue, not Larn or Hack or the other games that are supposed to be "rogue-like."

1991 Jul 11 [https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.programmer/c/cuSh2PbU2r0/m/72okavUc1I4J Joseph Nathan Hall on rec.games.programmer 

  "En masse" techniques for finding LOS from one point to all nearby points. Useful if you're building a Rogue-like game with "realistic" LOS and lighting.

1991 Mar 6 Mike Zraly (the old ssrat) on rec.games.rogue

a big list of rogue-like games: Hack, NetHack, Omega, Ularn, Umoria

1991 Nov 6 Pete Calvert on rec.games.frp 

   Jim, you might want to check out Nethack and Moria for Rogue-like games.

1992 May 14 Dru Henke on rec.games.video 

   Are there any Rogue-like games? Are there and games for the Genesis that are based on the Rogue/Hack/Moria genre that popular on Unix systems?

   Fatal Labyrinth is essentially Rogue with graphics. You can probably get it fairly cheap.

   Gauntlet is a game available for most home systems, (although not Genesis?), that is like Rogue in real time.

So games can be real-time or have graphics and they are still roguelikes.

1992 Dec 9 Christopher Davis on comp.sys.mac.games 

   Mission: Thunderbolt really is just a souped-up rogue/hack/nethack type
   game with amazing graphics and sounds. Get it, get it, get it, you'll
   be glad you did. (And, yes, hjkl move you if you want them to! :)

1993 May 20 WILLIAMSON, JOHN EDWARD on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc 

   I'm playing the Windows based Castle of the Winds (very much a Rogue
   type of game with a good GUI). I'm on the 11 th floor of the
   second maze consistently being killed by the giant Hrunger (sp?)
   I would really like to know how close this is to the end of the game.
   If I kill the giant is the game over, or do I go to a new maze (without
   registering)?

Other meanings

Here, the word "roguelike" is used to mean something different.

1983 Oct 13 Stephen Perelgut on net.games.frp 

   2) What is the best way for a GM to introduce first-timers to FRP? (I am
   choosing Basic D&D for its rogue-like nature and for the simplicity
   of the rules. If you think this is terrible, let me know and give
   me an alternative. It isn't too late. YET!!!!!)

No idea in what sense Basic D&D is "rogue-like", and whether it refers to Rogue or some other meaning of that word.

1983 Nov 2 rob... on net.games.emp 

   While we are on the subject of highways, I would like Empire to
   give me some roguelike assitance while moving along a highway.
   For example, in addition to typing "ea"yugjbnhv to move, I'd like to
   type "YUGJBN", meaning:  
   Start moving in that direction on a highway square, and
   continue on highway squares until the road forks.

Here the word "roguelike" refers not to the game design of Rogue, but its directional keyboard layout (and a recommendation to use it in Empire, presumably a very different game). There are also some other uses in that sense (Hack or Search or Angband or Moria), but it is clear from the context that it is just a different meaning of the word.

1985 Mar 28 Bill Swan on net.games 

   We have made some modifications to SAIL, for a more 'rogue-like' scoring
   system, and a few minor display alterations (no, you still can't fire on
   a struck ship!). If interested, let me know. If there is sufficient interest,
   I will post the change

No idea what SAIL or 'rogue-like' scoring system is.

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