Difference between revisions of "RogueBasin talk:Community Portal"

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<table class="infobox" style="float:right;clear:right; width: 11em; border: 1px solid #93BACB; background:#E0E7EF;font-size:95%; margin:1em; line-height:1.4em;">
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<th style="background:#C2D8EF; padding:.4em; margin:1em; font-size:105%">Archives</th>
<th style="background:#C2D8EF; padding:.4em; margin:1em; font-size:105%/j">Archives</th>
</tr>
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* [[/Archive 1|1]]
* [[/Archive 1|1]]
* [[/Archive 2|2]]
* [[/Archive 3|3]]
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== Organization ==
== Articles unnecessarily protected. ==


I think that some of the organization is confusing. I propose the following layout:
Several pages are marked as protected and it's unclear why. [http://roguebasin.com/index.php/Special:ProtectedPages?namespace=0&type=edit&level=0&size-mode=min&size= You can see them here].
There no specified reason, I couldn't find any indications of abuse,
and some of the discussions concluded that the protection was accidental and that admins weren't able to get around to resolving them at the time.[http://roguebasin.com/index.php/Talk:CreatingAForest]
It's obvious why [[Main Page]] and [[Featured roguelike‎]] would be protected, but I think protections should be removed from all other pages unless a reason can be given. --[[User:HexDecimal|HexDecimal]] ([[User talk:HexDecimal|talk]]) 07:26, 22 June 2021 (UTC)


----
: It seems most of these came from a rgrd thing where people would agree to share their articles in roguebasin but specified they didn't want edits. I will dig into it and put the real cause if that's the case. --[[User:Slash|Slash]] ([[User talk:Slash|talk]]) 16:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Articles (See [[Articles]] for expanded. Categories should reflect that listing.)
* Development [...]
* Design [...]
* Implementation [...]  
* Game reviews
(additional article categories:)
* Editable articles (will have 'original by' attribution as in [[Monster attacks]])
* Locked articles (will have a message stating that the original author would not like the article edited)


Games (Categories...)
:: I didn't realize that. It's unfortunate that several of those pages have minor errors which can't be fixed. If that's the case then I think it'd have been better to have external links to the original articles instead of mirroring them on the wiki, or at least segregate them in some way that makes it clear that they aren't normal wiki pages.
* Talkie-talkie projects
:: I found the [[RGRD Wiki Project]] page which mentions that the pages would be protected.  These pages were supposed to have the author info in a small template but that seems to be missing from the protected pages I checked.  --[[User:HexDecimal|HexDecimal]] ([[User talk:HexDecimal|talk]]) 22:31, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
* Unstable games (merge of alpha/beta games. Any game that isn't finished.)
* Stable games (games that are "finished", as far as being fully playable. Includes 7DRLs and Major roguelikes as subcategories.)
* 7DRLs (Stable games that are 7DRLs)
* Major roguelikes (Stable games that are well-known)
(an additional category:)
* Defunct projects (any project that is dead, regardless of completedness)
* Handheld roguelikes (any project or roguelike for cell phones or other handheld defices)
* Roguelike engines (any project that includes or is a roguelike engine)
(by similarity:)
* Hacklikes (messagebox stating "this game is a [[Hacklike]]")
* Bandlikes (messagebox stating "this game is a [[Bandlike]]")
** Angband variants (messagebox stating "this game is an [[Angband variant]]")


Listings (such as [[Monster attacks]], [[Preferred Key Controls]] - also to be included in [[Articles]] as bold entries)
== Can't upload new images. ==


Definitions (Explanations of what a term means, and relevant information. [[:Category:Features]] includes many pages which are just explanations of what a term means.)
I wanted to upload a new image example for [[Scrolling map]] but I receive the following error when I attempt to upload it:
: Could not open lock file for "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/c/c8/Camera_vectors.png". Make sure your upload directory is configured correctly and your web server has permission to write to that directory. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgUploadDirectory for more information.
--[[User:HexDecimal|HexDecimal]] ([[User talk:HexDecimal|talk]]) 00:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


Navigation pages shouldn't be categorized, unless they relate to a certain category (e.g. list of roguelikes and roguelike games).
:I get that error too. Sorry, not something I can help with. Could be connected to the upgrade in July. [[User:Slash|Slash]], can you look into this please.-[[User:Muscles|Muscles]] ([[User talk:Muscles|talk]]) 02:24, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
----
As it is, many games are placed under 4 different categories. Major roguelikes are all stable, and so are all 7DRLs (that aren't in progress - if they are, I doubt the author would take the time to write an article here) - no need to add them under "stable" and "major roguelikes"/"7DRLs" (and "roguelike games" and etc.). At the very most, you'd have 3: development status, hacklike or bandlike, and if it's defunct/an engine/handheld. This means that all games under [[:Category:Roguelike games]] should be subcategorized. If you want a [[list of all roguelikes]], one exists.


I propose that all categorization is done only through templates (for example, adding [[Template:Gameinfo]] automatically adds that page to [[:Category:Roguelike games]]). This would eliminate stray categories that have a single article under them (I've put [[:category:angband]] into [[:category:delete]]). There's no need to give every article on this site a category. It would also eliminate mis-categorized pages ([[:category:roguelike games]] should have a see also for pages like List of handheld roguelikes etc., but they shouldn't be classified as roguelike games.) By including, for example, <nowiki>{{defunct}}</nowiki>, a box that states "This game or project is [[defunct]]" would be displayed on the right, and the page would be added to [[:category:defunct projects]]. I'll implement the necissary templates if noone objects. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 01:47, 18 Sep 2006 (CEST)
:: This is fixed now --[[User:Slash|Slash]] ([[User talk:Slash|talk]]) 14:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


----
== That Role Playing ==
I like most of your proposals.  I am not sure about the idea of merging alpha and beta, many authors seem to like to be able to make that distinction.  I would also be very careful to avoid the word finished with respect to stable games.--[[User:JeffLait|JeffLait]] 05:48, 18 Sep 2006 (CEST)


: I'll make two seperate templates for alpha and beta. | Perhaps 'finishable' is the proper term. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 21:16, 18 Sep 2006 (CEST)
Hi, my name is Eugenia, we'd like to add our released game That Role Playing to RogueBasin database of RL games.


"Articles in category "Roguelike games"" is the place where I - as a user - would look for a list of all games (independent of development status) and Warp Rogue does not show up there without this category. --[[User:Copx|Copx]] (moved from my page [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]])
Steam link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1673180/That_Role_Playing/
 
Released: 21 Oct 2021
: Categories are typically used for navigation. I start at the very top with a something in mind, and work my way down. At the very top we might have a category called "main" or "all" or "information", or whatever. Yes, every article ''is'' "all" or "information", and I may expect to find every page of information on this wiki under that main category, but that doesn't mean that we should put our 500~ pages under that category. Same for the roguelike games category. A list of all roguelike games is much more suited to be, well, [[a list of all roguelike games]]. Now, if we ''did'' want all games to be placed under 'roguelike games', all we'd have to do is add the words <nowiki>[[category:roguelike games]]</nowiki> to the relevant templates, which appear on (ideally) ''all'' games (not just yours), and they would all be added to that category. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 01:37, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
Finished categorization of games. The remaining pages in that category should be merged (do ports deserve their own pages?) and deleted or categorized in some way. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 04:30, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
:I think you can safely merge all the NetHack ports into [[NetHack]]. --[[User:Kisielewicz|Kisielewicz]] 04:34, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
Ok, done. I've merged a lot of small articles or navigation pages in the interests of keeping it simple. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 07:16, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
== Graphical Map Template ==
 
Looking at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Chess_position Wikipedia's Chess Template] got me thinking whether articles describing dungeon generation and FOV could use something similar to display a graphical map instead of ASCII art.
 
Something like:
 
<pre>
{{dungeon
|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|
|#|.|.|.|.|.|.|#|
|#|.|#|@|.|#|#|#|
|#|#|#|.|.|.|.|+|
|#|.|.|.|.|.|.|#|
|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|
}}
</pre>
 
I'm new here, so I'd like my first real contributions to go smoothly. Would anyone object if I went ahead and implemented this?
 
--[[User:Bruno|Bruno]] 01:44, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
: Since this wiki is rather small, all good contributions are welcome, and all controversial contributions would only bring more activity to the wiki, and so are also welcome. As for the template, the easiest way is to just use <nowiki><pre></pre></nowiki> tags, or indent the map - unless you have graphical tiles in mind, which tend to vary (and screenshots are easier). If you're interested in templates and have the time, here's a problem: the single original template is now split based on dev. status. However, there are other minor... attributes: some games have [[:category:horror]] added to them, etc. You may have noticed that I've added some [[:category:templates|templates]] like "this game is an angband variant" and "this game is a coffeebreak roguelike" (which is actually an incomplete replacement for the "game length" attribute). We don't want to say "this is a fantasy roguelike" + "this is a horror roguelike" + "this is a coffeebreak roguelike" etc. on many games. So is there a simple way to do this categorization with templates, or will users have to unreliably just add the categories themselves? [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 02:31, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
:: If I understand your problem correctly, you should just be able to add <nowiki>[[Category:Coffeebreak roguelikes]] or [[Category:Horror roguelikes]]</nowiki> to the appropriate templates so that the pages including them will be automatically included in those categories. As for the proposed dungeon template, yes it would be graphical. It would not be intended as a "screenshot" to preview a game, but would be used to graphically demonstrate map-related algorithms. --[[User:Bruno|Bruno]] 03:03, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
::: Ah, yes. Sure, why not? - but do make sure that it's square and perhaps of a large (or a variety of) sizes. Have a look at how it would be used in the algorithm pages, if you havn't already. | I've added those categories. The problem is that we don't want "this game was developed by X" "this game was released in 2003" etc. - we just want to use a regular template, but if someone enters "fantasy, horror" for "|theme=", it adds the game to those relevant categories. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 03:58, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
 
== Locked pages ==
 
...are annoying. Here's what I'd like to have changed: (hit the edit button for a better view)
 
----
The [[RogueBasin]] is a central [[articles|knowledge-base]] for everything related to the [[What a roguelike is|Roguelike]] genre, as well as a detailed [[:category:roguelike games|directory of Roguelike games]].
 
<div style="text-align:center;"><b>
[[Articles|Articles]] &middot; [[:category:roguelike games|Games]] &middot; [[RogueBasin talk:Community Portal|Community]] &middot; [[Roguelike Links|Links]]
</b></div>
 
[...]
 
Of course, the best way to understand what a Roguelike is is to download and play one.
 
[...] The following may help you find out more:
 
*[[:category:roguelike games|Categorized games]]
*[[list of roguelikes|Lists of games]]
*[[Major roguelikes]]
*[[Roguelike Reviews]]


[...]
[...]
If you have some ideas for a new Roguelike and would like to give development a go (or are already a [[developers|seasoned developer]]) the RogueBasin is here to help you expand the Roguelike genre. A [[articles|complete list of articles]] is available, but here are some to get you started:
* [[Roguelike Dev FAQ]]
* [[How to Write a Roguelike Game in 15 Steps]]
* [[:Category:Events|Events]]
* [[7DRL]]
* [[rgrd]]
[add this title under the current titles:]
==Contribute==
One of the easiest ways to contribute is to add your name to the [[RGRD Wiki Project]]. Simply post a message on [[rgrd]] stating that you'd like to participate, and what you agree to. [Alternatively, send an email to [if someone wants to get these?]. ] If one of us happens to see a relevant post by you, we'll upload it to this wiki as an article.
If you'd like to contribute to RogueBasin directly, [blah blah blah how to set up an account]. Feel very free to edit! However, changes to navigation, categorization, or the templates (since they affect many pages) should first be discussed on the [[RogueBasin talk:Community Portal|Community portal]]. We especially need more information added to the [[:category:roguelike games|games pages]] and the [[list of roguelike games|lists]] - if you're a developer, consider updating your game's page, and making sure that it (and you) are included in the relevant lists.
----
Redirect the community portal page to here (it's now fully redundant to the main page). Redirect the main page talk to here, move its contents to near the top of this page. That should encourage people to post something here, and then go on to contributing. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 07:51, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
The problem is that this might destroy the purpose of why they are locked in the first place :P (Spam). Okay, I'll unlock them, and you'll set up the redirects. --[[User:Kisielewicz|Kisielewicz]] 12:19, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
They now redirect, and may be re-locked. Could you (or anyone who can) add my above changes to the main page? [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 22:34, 21 Sep 2006 (CEST)
We'll try to unlock the main page too. Alarm me if spam or vandalism occurs. --[[User:Kisielewicz|Kisielewicz]] 19:02, 23 Sep 2006 (CEST)


== Standardization ==
: Please feel free to create a game page for it, it looks relevant for roguebasin. Thanks! --[[User:Slash|Slash]] ([[User talk:Slash|talk]]) 14:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


'Roguelikes' or 'roguelike games'? 'Projects' or 'games' (as in beta projects/stable games)? And other issues of standardized naming. I prefer not using 'projects', favoring 'games' and 'engines'. To be consistant, I would call the games category 'games', since roguelike is the only type we have, and because I don't want 'stable roguelike games', which would be the natural subcategory. [[User:M|<b><i>[[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup></i></b>]] 00:53, 24 Sep 2006 (CEST)
:: I've created the page. Thank you! --[[User:Enginya|Enginya]] 05:19, 9 November 2021  (UTC)
:*Aye, I think we need a standard way of saying either 'roguelikes' or 'roguelike games', just to be consistent. 'Roguelikes' would be my preferred choice, because it's shorter and I don't think the 'games' part is necessary.
:*I think the idea with 'projects'/'games' is that while the roguelike is in development it is not complete and shouldn't be considered as a game yet, so it is a project. Something needs to be done about 'defunct games' though. It's referred to as 'defunct games' in places and 'defunct projects' in some places. Maybe everything could be renamed to things like 'Beta roguelikes', 'Stable roguelikes', 'Defunct roguelikes', etc.
:*Also, this page is getting long, anyone mind if I archive some of the comments?
:[[User:Icey|Icey]] 18:48, 30 Sep 2006 (CEST)


:*'Roguelike games' is redundant, IMO.  Stick with 'Roguelikes'.
== False assumption on the front page ==
:*I agree.  Alpha projects are the beginnings of a roguelike, Beta projects are playable versions of the game that are still incomplete, Defunct projects are ones that got left off somewhere between alpha and beta, and Stable games are the ones that are basically done and are just fixing bugs.  Also, about Defunct games vs. projects...defunct games are games that are complete but forgotten about and rarely played.  Defunct projects are defined in my first sentence.  And no, I don't think we should use the generic term 'roguelike' when referring to these.  There's a big enough difference between a game and a project that the wording is important.
:*Go for it.  A lot of the early stuff is irrelevant now anyway.


:Also, here's another idea I have for naming. How about if we renamed "Talkie-talkie projects" to "Shockfrost projects"?
“Modern traditional roguelikes often shun this aspect, in favor of accessibility for less hardcore players.”
:[[User:Gamer 2k4|[[User:Gamer_2k4|Gamer_2k4]]<b><sup>[[User_talk:Gamer_2k4|Talk]]</sup></b>]] 01:40, 30 Oct 2006 (CET)
This statement makes a generalizing and false assumption. Popular modern roguelikes like DCSS, Qud and ToME certainly don’t use graphics as an accessibility feature, nor are these graphics in any way a hindrance to “The True Experience”, as a genre gatekeeper would suggest. Qud in particular is fantastically enhanced via its graphics. It leaves others in the dust when it comes to art style and UX design. Definitely not a mere accessibility feature meant as scrap for the dogs. Let’s excise this subjective and obviously loaded language from the front page.
::I'm not keen on that idea. I don't know much about Roguelikes, but I've never heard of Shockfrost and never heard anyone use it in refering to a project. Is Shockfrost a roguelike? I don't know. Also, you don't give a reason for changing the name, so my vote would be for no. [[User:Icey|Icey]] 21:28, 30 Oct 2006 (CET)
::: Shockfrost was a guy who entered r.g.r.d. guns blazing and had a lot of ideas for a game he never made. He dissapeared mysteriously in the shadows.--[[User:Slash|Slash]] 20:36, 31 Oct 2006 (CET)
:::: I understand now, thanks for the explanation Slash. [[User:Icey|Icey]] 23:03, 31 Oct 2006 (CET)
:: I vote for a 'no', it is just unfair to the projects ;) shockfrost games are born dead, while ours may see the light someday soon! --[[User:Slash|Slash]] 20:36, 31 Oct 2006 (CET)
::: Here's a few alternative names:
::: * Discussed Projects (doesn't imply someone there is one person working on it, so probably a bad choice)
::: * Unreleased Projects (hmm kinda implies something has been made, so probably bad as well)
::: * Planned Projects (oooh alliteration and it sounds positive, without implying there is something created)
::: * Outlined Projects (similar to above)
::: * Pre-alpha Projects (also sounds positive, implies it is starting the journey along the development stage)
::: * Couldn't Really Appear Projects (well, maybe not)
::: [[User:Icey|Icey]] 23:03, 31 Oct 2006 (CET)

Latest revision as of 10:25, 17 March 2023

· Click here to add a new message ·


Archives

Articles unnecessarily protected.

Several pages are marked as protected and it's unclear why. You can see them here. There no specified reason, I couldn't find any indications of abuse, and some of the discussions concluded that the protection was accidental and that admins weren't able to get around to resolving them at the time.[1] It's obvious why Main Page and Featured roguelike‎ would be protected, but I think protections should be removed from all other pages unless a reason can be given. --HexDecimal (talk) 07:26, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

It seems most of these came from a rgrd thing where people would agree to share their articles in roguebasin but specified they didn't want edits. I will dig into it and put the real cause if that's the case. --Slash (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
I didn't realize that. It's unfortunate that several of those pages have minor errors which can't be fixed. If that's the case then I think it'd have been better to have external links to the original articles instead of mirroring them on the wiki, or at least segregate them in some way that makes it clear that they aren't normal wiki pages.
I found the RGRD Wiki Project page which mentions that the pages would be protected. These pages were supposed to have the author info in a small template but that seems to be missing from the protected pages I checked. --HexDecimal (talk) 22:31, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Can't upload new images.

I wanted to upload a new image example for Scrolling map but I receive the following error when I attempt to upload it:

Could not open lock file for "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/c/c8/Camera_vectors.png". Make sure your upload directory is configured correctly and your web server has permission to write to that directory. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:$wgUploadDirectory for more information.

--HexDecimal (talk) 00:41, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

I get that error too. Sorry, not something I can help with. Could be connected to the upgrade in July. Slash, can you look into this please.-Muscles (talk) 02:24, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
This is fixed now --Slash (talk) 14:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

That Role Playing

Hi, my name is Eugenia, we'd like to add our released game That Role Playing to RogueBasin database of RL games.

Steam link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1673180/That_Role_Playing/ Released: 21 Oct 2021

[...]

Please feel free to create a game page for it, it looks relevant for roguebasin. Thanks! --Slash (talk) 14:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
I've created the page. Thank you! --Enginya 05:19, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

False assumption on the front page

“Modern traditional roguelikes often shun this aspect, in favor of accessibility for less hardcore players.” This statement makes a generalizing and false assumption. Popular modern roguelikes like DCSS, Qud and ToME certainly don’t use graphics as an accessibility feature, nor are these graphics in any way a hindrance to “The True Experience”, as a genre gatekeeper would suggest. Qud in particular is fantastically enhanced via its graphics. It leaves others in the dust when it comes to art style and UX design. Definitely not a mere accessibility feature meant as scrap for the dogs. Let’s excise this subjective and obviously loaded language from the front page.

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